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Music Workshop It can be difficult sometimes to have the confidence to make your first song upload, so with this in mind we've decided to launch this new forum with a view to helping other members solve some of their music-making problems.

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Re: Yamaha versus Korg
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Default Re: Yamaha versus Korg - 17-12-2008, 05:53 PM

I have an urge to buy a Korg Oasys after hearing a demo on Youtube but at over £6000 I can't afford it, in the meantime I have to stick with the S/H T2
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Re: Yamaha versus Korg
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Default Re: Yamaha versus Korg - 27-03-2009, 10:08 PM

Well I should be in a position to compare Korg with Yamaha soon - The kids just bought me a Korg M3 from their inheritance money - Woohoo!


Reality is an illusion created by alcohol deficiency
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Re: Yamaha versus Korg
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Default Re: Yamaha versus Korg - 30-03-2009, 05:15 AM

Spike old friend...I just bought a Korg M3...... Hoo Haaaa. I'll be a month of Sundays trying to learn even the basics of this baby. I must say the pads are really lush. Trying to get a handle on the sequencer right now. The manual is a little daunting. I messed around with using the psr3000 and the M3 together. Lots of combinations going on.
It's quite a workstation.


Hello from Canada....George
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Re: Yamaha versus Korg
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Default Re: Yamaha versus Korg - 30-03-2009, 10:07 AM

Hi George
Great to hear from you as always, and it's good to know another M3 novice yep it's a bit of a beast but having a Motif XS helps a bit as I've already gone through a bit of the workstation learning curve. I'm understanding the manual better than Yamahas so far. Editing DSP seems to be a more long winded process when modifying voices but the touch screen is pretty cool and intuitive.
My music room is nearly finished now so once all my gear is connected up I shall be in a better position to get deep into the machine, in the meantime I'd be grateful for any observations/techniques you may put my way. In the future we can help eachother I'm sure
Kind regards
Spike


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Re: Yamaha versus Korg
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Default Re: Yamaha versus Korg - 26-08-2009, 06:25 AM

I've owned several pieces of gear by Yamaha, Korg, Kurzsweil. What I like about Yamaha stuff, is it sound homogenous. The sounds fit together well. with Korg, sometimes I get great sound but If try to layer 3 -4 together they 'fight'

I like the Karma software that is in Korg. But also the arpeggios in Motif XS are fine too.
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Re: Yamaha versus Korg
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Default Re: Yamaha versus Korg - 26-08-2009, 11:26 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by angelonyc View Post
I've owned several pieces of gear by Yamaha, Korg, Kurzsweil. What I like about Yamaha stuff, is it sound homogenous. The sounds fit together well. with Korg, sometimes I get great sound but If try to layer 3 -4 together they 'fight'

I like the Karma software that is in Korg. But also the arpeggios in Motif XS are fine too.
Some tips to stop 'layers' fighting is not to have more than one of a type of instrument ie only one guitar, only one flute etc. Try to have a fast attack instrument with a slow attack instrument, pan the voices to different values L & R, add reverb to one of the voices. If they fight then you have the selection wrong. You should be able to hear each voice.
Yes that Karma is pretty cool. The nearly 7000 arpeggios on the Motif are so good, so easy to use and easy to make your own - it's one of the best features of the Motif. The pads on the M3 are also very useful and both the Motif and M3 are fairly easy to sequence although I prefer the Motif for this.
I would rate the Korg drums better than Yamaha. Both operating systems are more complicated than they need to be and highest on my 'wish list' for both would be a big internal hard drive to accomodate all those big sample files instead of having to load them from a memory stick every time.
Do you have the Radias expansion board on your M3 rack?
Spike


Reality is an illusion created by alcohol deficiency
Tyros 5, Tyros 3, Montage 6, Motif XS6 plus Karma, Korg M3, Behringer Deepmind 12, Nord Wave, Roland TR8, Volca Bass, Fostex MR16, Tascam US122Mk2, Tascam DR40, Turbosound ip2000
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Re: Yamaha versus Korg
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Default Re: Yamaha versus Korg - 26-08-2009, 01:33 PM

Over the years, (used to own, Triton, original Motif, Kursweil). I came to discover that the Motif 'layered' sounds better (in my opinion). Their sounds are a bit more compact, EQ'd, and 'thinner'. But they work together extremely well. It was a lot easier to put them together. Yes, I certainly have dealt with the concept of different timbres being put together.

In the last year or so, I have taught myself to do complete 'scores' of my Logic Projects. I do them like an orchestral score. Lengthwise, anywhere's from 6 - 13 parts written out. It was a bit of a challenge to get all of it together in Logic.. It's scoring section is powerful, but rather 'un-logical' to say the least.

I have find it a tremendous help in arranging. Because now it gives you a lot of visual information. You don't have to rely on just your ears to create a song. Often as I work on a song, I'll realize I can condense 4 tracks down to 2, because like you said, there are too many layers that are too alike. Sometimes I'll just improvise a track, and then end up assigning various phrases in it over 2 or 3 instruments, to 'open' it up.

I bought the Korg M3 last January. I was very interested in the "Karma" software. It is extremely powerful, but a bit too complicated for me. Stephen Kay, (guy who wrote the software) is nothing short of amazing. He has a web sight called Karma-Lab. He is there everyday, answering questions, explaining things. I have not seen that much dedication in someone in years. He has started assembling a number of 'video lessons'. They are truly invaluable. Anyone wanting to learn the ins/outs of M3, should take them. There is a rather modest cost, but worth the investment. I don't have the Radius software. It looks interesting though.

Up until last Xmas, I used all software, to make music. Logic, Trilogy, Omnisphere, Music-lab (Real Guitar, Real Strat), AAC (Lounge Lizard) Native Instruments, Kontackt, (Electric Piano, Guitar Rig, Reaktor). Rob Papen's Blue and Albino are great software synths too. But after I bought the M3, then Yamaha, I realized I missed the physicalness of hardware. (I was brought up on ARP and MOOG synths, with patchchords plugging everything together)

I have used Band in a box for years.. I would figure out chords with it, and play with melody, harmonies. Then I would record several versions in different styles, and save them all as both MGU and MIDI files. I would then import the MIDI files into Logic, using piano from one style, bass a 2nd, piano a 3rd. Etc.. Then I would begin modifying, chopping or overdubbing on top of that. I found it very useful to give me a solid foundation to create a song.

The reason I bought the M3 was to get 'creative chunks' of midi data to incorporate into music. After a few months I bought a Motif XS. In a way I like their use of arpegios and 'layer mode' better than Karma's. It seems more manageable to me.

I recently bought Tyros 3. It really is a powerful piece of gear. You can create a great arrangement of a song, very quickly. And it sounds so good just by itself. From what I gather most people use the Tyros for live performance. I was a little surprised to find so little available information, about it's inner software workings.
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Re: Yamaha versus Korg
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Default Re: Yamaha versus Korg - 26-08-2009, 04:57 PM

Interesting post!
I guess when you are talking of condensing 4 tracks into 2 you are referring to audio not midi.
I too visit the Karma Lab, it's a very good site - so is this one Korg Forums :: Index
You sound very knowledgeable about software synths and sequencing software, perhaps we can look to you for advice on that subject.
The Tyros, being an arranger keyboard, is more for the live playing market and the software inside isn't as important as the functions which it creates. I think anyone who records their own stuff in a studio environment would find it difficult with a Tyros or other arranger. This is where the workstation/synth comes into it's own. Horses for courses as they say.
Spike


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Re: Yamaha versus Korg
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Default Re: Yamaha versus Korg - 26-08-2009, 06:45 PM

No, I was talking about midi tracks.. I like to keep the arrangement in Logic as MIDI for as long as possible. When the singer comes in, I play with transposing to get them to sound as good as possible.

I love to 'tinker' with arrangements. My first approach to creating music was to lay down a bunch of tracks. You gotta understand I'm 60. I first started recording with two two track tape recorders with with the erase head disconnected.. I played in bands, and loved recording.. When synths came out, I switched to them, and got on board with computers and sequencers when they first came out.

I'm mostly self taught, but in the last few years, I've been taking some online courses at Berklee in Boston.. The courses are great, but expensive. The scoring out approach has made me 'see' music in a different light. After looking at a bunch of tracks I just 'jammed/improvised'. I could understand the structures of a song better. It then became easier to go in and 'thin' stuff out, so there was more acoustic space for everything to fit better.

Leaving it all as midi, makes it easier to keep altering things. Once it is in decent shape I turn it into real audio..

I do intend to use the Tyros for arranging music. It can quickly 'flesh out' an idea. I have recorded a few Tryos 'songs' and then imported them into Logic. I split the Tyros midi file into individual midi tracks in Logic and then make them into audio.

I realize Tyros is really more of a 'live instrument'. But it gives such 'immediate gratification'. The other day I recorded a long jam into Tryos song, then imported that into Logic and cut/spliced/copied sections into a cohesive piece. Just had to add another line or two to have a completed song.

I've been looking at the Tryos MIDI presets. The key to using it as a studio instrument, lies there. I believe. Most of 'magic' that Tryos does is thru sysex, and control information. When you record a song in Tryos, it really is a very small MIDI file. And when Tryos plays back it's own songs, it's totally seemless. Getting an external DAW to record and play back this data, will require some forethought..

I've been doing a few experiments. You can't just blindly strip the sys-ex data out of the midi file, cause then the Tryos become very sterile. I need to create some MIDI presets which selectively shut off certain types of data to certain midi channels.. This will be the key to getting an external sequencer to capture the tracks.

The mega articulation voices in Tyros are unmatched. Playing the sax and brass patches are unbelievable.

If I can, I'll be happy to answer questions..

I have a QUESTION.. I'm a bit confused about the different presets. Can you clarify a bit about them...

Which is best for use as song builder?
Suppose I just want to use Tryos as a one patch overdubbing instrument?

I've figured out 'external clock a' and have been successfully using that. I just created a User MIDI preset. I need to experiment with settings.. I think once I get a few of those created, it will be easy to switch thru them and then use Tyros in different kind of modes.
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Re: Yamaha versus Korg
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Default Re: Yamaha versus Korg - 26-08-2009, 08:22 PM

I was under the impression that only one voice could be on a midi track at any one time, the track will play the last Prog Ch only. ie you can't have a trumpet and a guitar on the same track at the same time and that you can only merge tracks if those tracks are the same voice.
BTW the Tyros has Mega voices and Super Articulation (SA2) voices

I'm a bit confused about the different presets. Can you clarify a bit about them...
which presets - the voices, styles,multipads or Midi? If you mean midi then you can have various configurations of midi depending on whether you use the Tyros as a master keyboard, various transmit and receive configurations - you can edit these and save to a USER set up so you can load the required configuration easily.


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