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Music Workshop It can be difficult sometimes to have the confidence to make your first song upload, so with this in mind we've decided to launch this new forum with a view to helping other members solve some of their music-making problems.

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Re: Yamaha versus Korg
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Default Re: Yamaha versus Korg - 26-08-2009, 09:32 PM

THANK you Spike for responding. I feel like I'm really making some headway here. A while I bought the Motif XS rack, and I called and emailed Yamaha with questions.. When I got someone, (very hard, I did get answers) but emails got 'lost'. I was really anxious about the Tyros, because this seems even more complicated, but I'm slowly getting it.

Regarding MIDI tracks in a DAW

Yes, normally one would keep one instrument on one track - just for clarity sake. Lead guitar all the way thru, bass on another etc.. You can easily however insert program changes to a midi track. Say it was your lead Riff track, and two differents instruments took turns playing phrases. You might want to keep that on one track, just for logistics. So you would put in a PG command, then the note data, later another PG for a different instrument sound, and more note data.

A MIDI track can actually contain up to 16 MIDI channels on it, provider your receiving instrument is set up to accept all 16 channels. (usually in a 'multi' mode) For instance in Logic I use RX port 1 (the device_ and set it to 'ALL' so all 16 channels are transmitted..
I however make 16 devices (one midi channel each) all going to same port,

For the sake of being clear about what's going where, it's easier to keep one channel on one midi track

What I meant by my original statement. was that I might have started with a certain number of tracks, say organ, epiano, Ld Gtr, rhythm guitar, horn sax line, trumpet, vibes, marimba, and drums.

But after I get the song into shape, I realize I don't really need vibes, and marimba (too much alike, so I will condense that down to one vibe track.. Like wise I might realize that my trumpet track only plays two riffs in song.. I will strip that out, and move those phrases over to the sax or organ track..

Trying to think like a band, I realize I'm not gonna have a trumpet player standing around for five minutes to play one 10 second riff. I either need to make him musically useful through out the song, or not have him at all.
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MIDI PRESETS - That's what I was referring to. I've spent some time this afternoon checking that out..

KEYBOARD and STYLE preset - Under the Transmit TAB - The parts - LEFT. RIGHT 1 RIGHT 2 and RIGHT 3 are set to off. So I assume this means any thing you play on those parts will not be transmitted out of the MIDI ports on back of Tyros.

Next is UPPER and LOWER parts going to MIDI channel 1 and 2 respectively on MIDI A port. This this is why parts LEFT. RIGHT 1 RIGHT 2 and RIGHT 3 are shut off right? It would be a duplication. Normally the Tyros keyboard is one MIDI channel divided in up to 4 zones. If I wanted I could turn on parts LEFT. RIGHT 1 RIGHT 2 and RIGHT 3 each on a different MIDI channel and then shut of UPPER/LOWER. (as I'm envisioning my question and typing all this out, it's beginning to make a little more sense)

MULTIPADS are obvious (for phrases or effects that I program in)

STYLE RHYTHM 1 &2 (drums)

BASS, CHORDS AND PADS (again obvious)

STYLES PHRASE 1 & 2 (Do I think of these as 'solo tracks'?)

SONG CH 1 - 16 (assigned to MIDI port B on back of Tyros) I'm unclear here. I would record on these if I patched a Motif XS (or other synth into back of Tryos). Then I could record track another up to 16 tracks if I wanted? Right?

--------------

(AHA moment) - So when I'm on the song page, and I hit MIXING CONSOLE button four times, I cycle thru the Tyros's 32 MIDI channels Right?

USING TYROS SONG RECORDER OR external DAW?

I notice that you can quickly create a beautiful sounding song using one of the styles, and since it is internally mixed in Tyros, and then put thru their (pretty decent compressor), it comes out sound full, and pumped. I have gone to the effort of externally exporting and recording each track into LOGIC. But it lacks the sparkle that comes out of Tyros in one step.

I'm of really old school recording (one instrument per track, drums included). However that generates a LOT of work. And sometimes the ends DO NOT justify the means. If you're only getting paid $100 to do a song demo, you're not gonna spend 6 hours isolating, recording, eq'ing each track. You'll put the whole music track out as a stereo pair and slap 3 tracks of vocals on it.

I guess it depends on the project, and it's use. (is it being exported somewhere else for more work etc.. I'd be interested to hear how others deal with this..

I've already noticed in the drums for instance, some kicks and cymbals are much too loud for my taste. I really don't think i want to wade thru an event list changing velocities..

QUESTION - Say I WAS inclined to 'fix' the velocites of kiks and cymbals in a style. I would have to go thru each section, Intro 1-3, Main variation 1 - 4 etc. and edit those. Right? Once they were incorporated into a song - they would be correct? (Main variation 1 plays repeatedly).

IS THERE A WAY to monitor those drums in the event list? So I know C3 in Live Drums Rock Kit. I couldn't figure that out, so it seemed pointless to try changing velocities.
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Re: Yamaha versus Korg
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Default Re: Yamaha versus Korg - 27-08-2009, 11:23 AM

(AHA moment) - So when I'm on the song page, and I hit MIXING CONSOLE button four times, I cycle thru the Tyros's 32 MIDI channels Right?
No - the first page is for mixing the PARTS , the second page is for mixing the STYLE PARTS, the 3rd page is for mixing Channels 1-8 and the 4th page is for mixing channels 9-16
Each of these pages of the mixing console enable you to adjust the component parts of each voice - these are accessed by tabbing across to whichever effect/component part you want to alter, highlighting the effect using buttons A to J then adjusting using the bottom buttons for the appropriate channel.
After adjusting (and this is important) you must go to [SONG CREATOR] tab to [CHANNEL] scroll down to highlight [SET UP] ensure all the relevant boxes are ticked then press [BUTTON C - EXECUTE] then press [SAVE]

STYLES PHRASE 1 & 2 (Do I think of these as 'solo tracks'?)
These tracks can be used for guitar riffs, brass arpeggios, synth sounds, not solo tracks because they will still be loops.

MULTIPADS are obvious (for phrases or effects that I program in)
Yes you can make your own and store in the USER sect or you can use the preset ones or download them from the internet. I have hundreds. It's best to add these after recording your song to ensure they come in at the right time. They cannot be cut and pasted into a style.

QUESTION - Say I WAS inclined to 'fix' the velocites of kiks and cymbals in a style. I would have to go thru each section, Intro 1-3, Main variation 1 - 4 etc. and edit those. Right? Once they were incorporated into a song - they would be correct? (Main variation 1 plays repeatedly).
Yes they will not alter by recording them into a song.

IS THERE A WAY to monitor those drums in the event list? So I know C3 in Live Drums Rock Kit. I couldn't figure that out, so it seemed pointless to try changing velocities
If you go to the event list of the channel which contains the drums you will see the same information as you would if you went to the style event list on the keyboard. You can alter the values of those events just the same but they are now not in a loop and therefore each event value for eg bass drum C3 will have to be altered - if you double click the value you can edit it. It's quicker and easier to alter within the style.

I notice that you can quickly create a beautiful sounding song using one of the styles, and since it is internally mixed in Tyros, and then put thru their (pretty decent compressor), it comes out sound full, and pumped. I have gone to the effort of externally exporting and recording each track into LOGIC. But it lacks the sparkle that comes out of Tyros in one step.
This might be that the song EQ settings on the Tyros are for all the recorded channels whereas when you record individual channels the master EQ doesn't recognise individual channels. Maybe the answer is to do the mixdown and effects settings per channel with the DAW. The master EQ on the Tyros can then be adjusted to give the best overall sound.
Sorry I can't answer all of your questions
Spike


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Re: Yamaha versus Korg
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Default Re: Yamaha versus Korg - 10-09-2009, 08:02 PM

Good comparison review here albeit a biased one by a Korg guy
IT-review.net - Motif XS7 review
The review is the Motif against an M3 - I've got both and I don't agree with all his findings but there again he only had the Motif a couple of hours and he is a Korg man.


Reality is an illusion created by alcohol deficiency
Tyros 5, Tyros 3, Montage 6, Motif XS6 plus Karma, Korg M3, Behringer Deepmind 12, Yamaha P70, Behringer UMX490, Korg NS5R, Fostex MR16, Tascam US122Mk2, Tascam DR40, Stagepas 300, Turbosound ip2000
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Re: Yamaha versus Korg
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Default Re: Yamaha versus Korg - 23-06-2014, 07:27 AM

I will share what little bit of comparison I have..which isn't alot. I have had a Casio (1st) and a Yamaha PSR-550 arranger. I used them with a Roland PK-5 foot keyboard so that I could play the lead on my guitar and sing as a one man band. I sold the Yamaha in the summer of 2012 and was gonna go as an acoustic musician just singing and playing the guitar. When I found out I could no longer play guitar, I was left with a choice...either give up music altogether after 50 years of entertaining or try switching to a keyboard and learn to accompany myself with it. I went to Guitar Center (Big chain here in US) after some research on youtube and various other sites to check on picking up a Yamaha PSR710. They had one that had been ordered in for a customer and he backed out at the last moment. They wanted $800 for it. As I was operating on a limited budget...fixed income....I didn't have the bucks to shell out. I was ready to leave the store and happened to look around me and there was a Korg Pa 80 there that had been traded in the day before and I bought it for $580. I liked what I saw on it and after playing on it and listening, I thought it had more live sounding styles and instruments...especially for the price. Sure I would have like to had a Tyros 4 but an individual on Social Security can't justify the expense. I have gone into it and removed alot of the styles and re-installed styles that have been modified by top notch keyboard men and some that have been converted from Yamaha, Solton, Technics and Roland. This has given the variety I want. I do primarily 50s-60s music in a variety of genres. It works for me. I am not super impressed with Korg's service..that is another story for a different day...but it is much user friendly as others have mentioned and you can do a lot of real-time stuff with it....plus it has built-in speakers with a 22W rms per side amp and I can run my mike thru it and put it all out thru an external pa source. I guess I would refer to my Korg as a "poor man's Tyros".
Purple Geezer Guy. (By the way, my name is Rick)
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