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Share your Cover Songs Share and discuss a member's own performance of a well-known song. Midi files are fine, but mp3's will need to be hosted off-site. (Registered members only - Guest access limited).

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The Crystal Ship
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Kemo Sabe invite me to dinner
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Default The Crystal Ship - 07-11-2009, 12:50 AM

This is a song by the Doors..

The Crystal Ship 21.mp3 - File Shared from Box.net - Free Online File Storage

Over in the 'music workshop' I put up some notes, on how I recorded this.
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File Type: mid BLANK.MID (678 Bytes, 4 views)
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Re: The Crystal Ship
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Default Re: The Crystal Ship - 08-11-2009, 07:13 PM

Hi Mark
Excellent tune and worthy of the amount of work that went into it.
The way you put it together I can more or less understand but it leads me to one question - What are you doing with the Tyros which you couldn't do with your other gear other than using the built in styles as a base and then mixing and matching them?
Is it that you are so used to recording songs by that method?
Cheers
Spike


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Re: The Crystal Ship
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Kemo Sabe invite me to dinner
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Default Re: The Crystal Ship - 08-11-2009, 09:40 PM

Thank you.. yes, I originally started with analog 4 -8- 16-24 track studios, where every instrument, every drum was on it's own track. When DAWs and virtual instruments, came along, I still used the same procedure with a wide assortment of hardware and software.

I used to use Band-in-a-box, to generate starting material, then overdub, hand play, and edit the tracks to build a piece. The Tyros however, has many excellent sounds. It's style generators are more sophisticated. And Yamaha has always been great about creating a homogenous sound (all the sounds blend together very well with very little work with outboard compressors, limiters eq). It's really a faster process now just using the Tyros.. I will go back to using some of the other gear again.

The procedure i'm currently using, is to use Tyros to generate a foundation, then edit and build on it so that Logic plays the final performance, and the Tyros acts as a realtime live sound module for 2 track recording.

With all the parameters available in the Tyros MIDI SETUP page, it is possible to use Tyros as a compositional tool/aid. If you're so inclined.

I have also just been playing and recording in the internal sequencer too - live one pass. This is a really great instrument..
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Re: The Crystal Ship
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Thumbs up Re: The Crystal Ship - 22-11-2009, 11:33 PM

Hi Mark

Vaguely recall this one and am amazed at what you have done to this old Doors number. The orchestration really suits it and now sounds like a completely new original composition, an extremely haunting tune that grows on you after a few listens.
A very professional performance, arrangement and production.
Appreciate the amount of work that has gone into this one, it's paid off with interest.


Regards

Will
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Re: The Crystal Ship
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Default Re: The Crystal Ship - 23-11-2009, 03:12 PM

Hi Mark.

I remember this one very well, and as Will said, your arrangement really gives it another dimension.

It had a kind of baroque feel to it, and reminded me of the film " A Knights Tale " with Heath Ledger, where the score consisted of hit songs from David Bowie and the likes, being played ,and danced to in the style of King Arthurs time.

Great attention to detail once again , and a very entertaining rendition of this old Doors "B side "

Regards
Gordon
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Re: The Crystal Ship
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Default Re: The Crystal Ship - 26-11-2009, 04:11 PM

Hi Mark,
Don't know the tune, but can appreciate the effort put in,,,sounds great
Leo


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Default Re: The Crystal Ship - 28-11-2009, 05:01 PM

Hi Mark,

Excellently played, arranged and mixed.

Loved the stuff going on in the intro. (Some sort of descending organ voice that comes in around half way through bar 3, nice!). Your arranging skills are second to none.

How do you work? For instance, do you tend to select an instrument and then play it throughout the tune, and then edit out the bits you don't need to thin out the parts.

Or, do you pre-determine what you're going to play and record each part as we hear it on the finished tune?

I appreciate the work you've put into this. A real labour of love.

Cheers

Paul


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Re: The Crystal Ship
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Kemo Sabe invite me to dinner
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Default Re: The Crystal Ship - 28-11-2009, 06:08 PM

Thank you Paul.

Over the years, I've used every technique I can think of..

What I tend to do lately, is play with a patch or style (now the Tyros is the greatest for this). Usually it will inspire a chord progression or riff. I'll record it into Tyros sequencer, just so that I can remember or retrieve it later. But then I go ahead and start trying out variations, of the same idea. with different styles, or sounds, or chords. As I go along, the piece starts to evolve and take direction.

I make quick reference takes if all ideas. The beauty of a DAW, is that you can keep everything you do. I do tend to put a lot of time into a song. Many, many hours. Occassionally, I'll hit on good (in my mind) idea. I will then often go back and tailor the other parts (replay, edit, overdub) to fit the newest idea I added.

So I might have a finished song. I'll mute the bass part, and create a new one, quite different from the original one. That in turn will inspire another elect piano part etc. So you quite quickly end up with many variations. On another day, when I'm fresh, I'll listen to the various versions, and re-decide what is the best way to go. Many times, I do go back to the to an earlier version. Many years ago, I read Prince often did this, muting parts, overdubbing new ones, until the song had almost no resemblance to the original version.

Sometimes I feel like I've wasted a lot of time.. But I love the process of just exploring the song, the chord progression, the timing, the harmonies, etc. I find as I add another part, I've really changed the harmonic structure. Like now I've made a 6/9 chord, which implies that some other parts or chords might need to shift also..

Many years ago, when I had a lot of hardware synths, I would pick out the sonic pallette I wanted to use (specific instruments - vibes, acoustic bass, dulcimer) I would then build a song just using those tonal colors.

And I also try to use different techniques, just to learn something more.. For instance for many years, I recorded every instrument on it's own track. (snare, hihat, kick drum). This of course gives you total control over every aspect of a song. But also becomes quite an enourmous amount of work..

Sometimes, I will mute a number of tracks (leaving only whole note blocked epiano chords), and play another instrument, just to see where it fits, and where it clashes. Sometimes I'll just record 2 or 3 takes of an instrument and then cut/paste/move the riffs around to a totally different place in the song. You can get some really interesting results..

Many years ago (70's - 16 track 2" analog tape). I was recording a live band.. After the band left, I decided the structure of the song was wrong, so I cut up the 2 inch tape, and re-ordered the parts, from 3 different takes..(I had read George Martin would do that on occasion with a Beatles song). I then took the lead guitar players solo line, and copied it over to a two track tape, and then 'bounced' that back into the master 16 track tape (possibly a Frank Zappa trick), so that although it was his notes, they were now in a totally different place.. I took what had been beat 1 and moved it to beat 3, and ocassionally beat 4.

It was the most amazing result. It sounded like this guitar player was a true genius, with an unworldly sense of time.. Once I did that I was forever hooked on studio manipulation of music.

An example of extreme technique (not mine) . I had worked at several 16 - 24 track studios in Boston, Massachusetts during 70's and 80's. I once met this very talented female singer.. She had auditioned for Frank Zappa, to become part of his band.. He came to the studio, took out some music manuscript paper and an ink pen.. He then proceeded to flick ink blots on the music staffs, and then told her to sing it.. She got the job. She was a back up singer for a year or so.

BACK to NOW - With the Tyros, I've been recording into Logic, but basically feeding all the individual MIDI tracks to Tyros at once and recording it as a final 'live' two track mix.. If I need to go back on another day and turn the bass part up, it is not a problem. I'm being very careful to record all programs, effect sends and levels into the Logic MIDI file, so I can exactly duplicate the song every time..

But this has greatly speeded up the recording process. Frankly the Tyros sounds great, when you have all the parts coming out at once, and being processed, EQ's and compressed in one step.. It doesn't sound the same when you do each track individually.. I like it..
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Default Re: The Crystal Ship - 28-11-2009, 06:36 PM

Fascinating stuff as always Mark.

Thanks

Paul


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